Of Mice and Men - The Cheese Factor
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Identifier: http://muslimmatters.org/2007/07/09/of-mice-and-men-the-cheese-factor/
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Subject: fatwa
Title: Of Mice and Men - The Cheese Factor
Created on: Fri Sep 05 13:46:59 -0400 2008
Updated on: Fri Sep 05 13:46:59 -0400 2008
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Abstract: ... with it. One just has to look for the stuff. -July 11th, 2007 at 2:56 pm Solomon2 said: In my humble opinion the evils associated with even opening a checking account in an interest-bank (yes, I have a bank account) are far worse than many of these high-level wara’ matters. You are treating modern currency as if it is real money. Real money, the money discussed in the Torah and the Koran, is gold and silver, isn’t it? Paper dollars and base-metal tokens are just units of credit, and the amount of credit a given quantity of gold and silver buys varies from day to day. So why worry about an interest-bearing account if it is denominated in dollars, rather than gold or silver? -July 11th, 2007 at 3:21 pm Amad (Author) said: Solomon, timely entry! I have always had a few questions in mind about kosher: I had an instructor once who was an orthodox Jew, and he used to bring special kosher pizza to share with me… awesome dude… In any case, he told me that as far as gelatin pills, the Torah forbid that it touch your mouth (I am going off memory, so excuse any mistakes), so he would wrap it up in a little piece of tissue to swallow it. Does that ring a bell? What do Jews do about medicine and other pills that you may not have a choice on? Are there similar principles w/regards to change of characteristic? As far as everyday stuff, if it has a K or a U on it, does that mean that it will for sure not have any bovine products? And will be based of kosher other-than-pig animal meat/bone? Look forward to hearing more… -July 11th, 2007 at 3:27 pm ruth nasrullah (Author) said: I know it’s going off base, but I’m curious about kosher food, too. It’s always my second choice if I really really can’t get my hands on halal - for instance, I bought kosher chicken broth when I couldn’t find halal. Is that appropriate? -July 11th, 2007 at 4:19 pm Solomon2 said: the Torah forbid that it touch your mouth (I am going off memory, so excuse any mistakes), so he would wrap it up in a little piece of tissue to swallow it Gross. That must really do a number on the esophagus. What do Jews do about medicine and other pills that you may not have a choice on? I consider the matter of what to do if prescribed medication with porcine and other non-kosher ingredients is controversial enough to consult with one’s rabbi for guidance. The general principle, I think, is to do what’s necessary to reasonably preserve one’s life and health. If it has only a “K” on it, that is a symbol added by the manufacturer only, not a certification. It’s all right for some breakfast cereals. Bovine = cow meat or product, at my level it must be kosher-processed to be acceptable, and must carry the hechsher of a reputable kosher-certifying organization. No food I know of can be certified kosher if there is any pork product in it. The “change-of-characteristic” rule is something I’ve never heard of before. I don’t think it exists in the laws of kashrut. Even if an egg has a single bloodstain on it, that renders the contents inside non-kosher. -July 11th, 2007 at 4:43 pm Amad (Author) said: oops i meant pork.. not bovine… I have heard all Jello is kosher. And what does a K symbolize if not kosher? -July 11th, 2007 at 4:51 pm khadija said: Assalamu alaikum wa rahmatullahi wa barakatuhu everyone Wow…so sheikh Yasir’s kids were in the kids sessions….I’m surprised someone didn’t keep one of them lol! Not funny…on a serious note, it would be interesting to get some insight on how a learned person educates his children….idea: It would be AWESOME if ANY Ustadh og Al Maghrib wrote up a bit about how they raise their children…how they deal with issues, when they teach what..day to day life..reallly awesome…I’m sure others would agree… i did read the article…really good masha allah la hawla wa la quwata illah bullah! -July 11th, 2007 at 7:46 pm oldschool said: lol! Doritos would generate so many responses. subhan Allah -July 11th, 2007 at 9:38 pm Karam Kim said: Assalaamualaikum warahmatullaahi wabarakaatuhu. I’ve listened to your lectures. It’s jewelry to me. As one of many admirers of yours, I have to confess that I love you Sh.Yasir Qadhi in Allaah. Thank you for your excellent article. Your article consists of mainly two parts. And I want to ask you a question for each part. 1. Helping the one who use pork. : If they make cheese by porcine enzyme, that means they earn money by using pig. It’s same thing with Jewish case. Jewish used to make candle by pig fat and they earned money by using pig. According to one Hadeeth, the Prophet(sallalaahu alaihi wasallam) forbade buying the candle made from pig fat. What I mentioned above is not food matter, but from the Hadeeth it can be concluded that it’s forbidden to make money from pig. If you say it’s Halaal to buy and eat Dorito made from porcine-added cheese, doesn’t mean that you allow them to make money by pig? In the Quran Allaah forbides us to help Munkar. What can you say if someone says to you that your statement eventually help Munkar(making money by pig) or what’s forbidden by the Prophet(sallalaahu alaihi wasallam)? 2. Matter of quantity I agree with you regarding quantity matter in general. But let me differ from you in one perspective. It’s right to say small quantity of najas(A) doesn’t make water(B) impure. B exists without A. In other words, B doesn’t contribut anything to the existence of A. B has nothing to do with A. In this case, in my humble opinion, we can apply quantity rule that you’ve mentioned. But can we still say that porcine enzyme(A) doen’t make the cheese(B) impure because of its small quantity? In this case, B CAN’T exist without A. Thanks to the B, A can exist. B is essential to the existence of A. That is, this case is not the matter of quantity. It’s matter of ingredient. This case is totally different from small najas and water. Water can exist without najas, but cheese can NOT exist without enzyme. Therefore, I think we can NOT apply quantity rule to this case. I’m not sure whethere I can get reply from you or not, ut it would be great honor for me to get some words from you. Please know that you’re my role model, and I always want to see you in person. Because I reside in Korea, it’s not easy, but who knows? May Allaah bless all of us. Ameen. -July 11th, 2007 at 11:50 pm Karam Kim said: My mistake: But can we still say that porcine enzyme(A) doen’t make the cheese(B) impure because of its small quantity? In this case, B CAN’T exist without A. (Thanks to the B, A can exist. B is essential to the existence of A.) -> Thanks to the A, B can exist. A is essential to the existence of B. -July 11th, 2007 at 11:57 pm Sheeraz said: I think Karam raises an interesting question in point 2. Is it correct to make analogy (qiyas) between consuming water mixed with a drop of urine and consuming cheese containing pork enzymes. The two cases though similar are different in some regards (as Karam described above). Another question which comes to my mind is that water is consumed in its liquid form while cheese is solid. Perhaps analogy should be restricted to liquids and not be extended to solids. My point is that a scholar’s conclusion on this issue will differ depending on the what he considers a valid qiyas. And derviving the qiyas involves ijtihaad. Just some thoughts. Allah alone knows best . -July 12th, 2007 at 9:24 am Maverick said: Sheeraz: EVen if you were to restrict it to liquids, it would include the cheese manufacturing process, as the rennet is added as a liquid, into a larger vat of liquid. -July 12th, 2007 at 10:40 am Sheeraz said: Maverick correct, but what I was referring to was in the end of the day you’re eating a slice of cheese, which is different than drinking water. The point I’m trying to make is “Is it a better approach to be liberal or conservative in one’s qiyas?”. What is the stronger usool? One may argue that the ahadith refer only to water and do not apply to other cases (a very restrictive approach). Therefore all other cases need a different proof. -July 12th, 2007 at 10:58 am Maverick said: Sheeraz, personally I take the opinion that if there are two halal choices in front of me, but one is more easier [liberal] than the other, then I take that one, since Allaah said in the Qur’an that He desires ease for us … so only in situations where there are two halal and legitimate choices, I’ll take the easier one. Not to be mistaken for picking and choosing between the different madhaa’hib to suit my desires. That, I don’t do. -July 12th, 2007 at 12:27 pm bdr said: “…Wikipedia states that 1 kg of manufactured cheese contains about 0.0003 grams of rennet enzymes. — Such a miniscule quantity of impurity (i.e., less than 0.00003 %) simply cannot make the entire product impure ” It’s actually even more minuscule: 0.0000003% (.0003 grams is .0000003 kg, so .0000003/1) -July 12th, 2007 at 1:46 pm Yasir Qadhi (Author) said: Salaam Alaikum - Br. Jamal - this fatwa is not being given by a minor student of knowledge such as myself, but rather is the fatwa of many scholars and Fiqh Academies of our times, amongst them the European Fiqh Council. - The issue of alcohol being najas is another topic altogether. The majority of scholars claimed that it was, a small minority (and this minority is growing in our times) claimed that it is not. - Br. Fulaan - yes your comments are on the mark. I tried to allude to this in the article but did not want to go into too much detail. The controversy in most classical fiqh works is whether rennet ‘dies’ and hence is najas, or whether the death of the animal has no ruling on it. Ibn Taymiyyah and others opined that a dead animal’s rennet (and milk) does not take the ruling of its meat. From my readings, I have only noticed later scholars bring up the istihlak issue in specific reference to cheese. The concept of istihlak is clearly discussed in classical works, but I do not know of any works that then use this principle for cheese. However, most modern medical researchers with Shar’i knowledge bring this up as the main point in claiming cheese is permissible. Allah knows best why most classical scholars did not use this principle in their times… - Br. Sheeraz, again this is a different topic. There are no doubt levels of piety, and there is also extremism in over-verifying! Personally, if a dish ‘appears’ to be vegetarian or seafood, I assume it is. In some fancy restaurants I ask if any wine will be used to prepare the seafood, but otherwise I don’t go into too much detail. If someone were to do that I’m not saying that’s not allowed… - Solomon2, thanks for your comments. The ruling on paper money takes the same rulings as gold as silver because, in our times, they have taken the place of gold and silver. There is no significant difference of opinion amongst modern scholars that paper money takes the rulings of classical dinars/dirhams. - Karam, the rulings of Islam would not apply to insignificant quantities. Our buying Doritos does not drive the pig industry! Really no scholar would consider Doritos haram for such an issue. Your second issue is valid if the Sharee’ah were to take into account the effect of a substance on another. But for the most part it doesn’t. It looks at the quantity, regardless of what effect that quantity has. The final product, as long as it is pure, contains a very insignificant quantity of najas. This is all that the Sharee’ah is concerned with. - The rennet is added as a liquid to a liquid. The issue of cheese being solid would not affect what I mentioned earlier. - bdr, well I’ll be! I can’t believe I overlooked that. So you’ve actually increased the potency of my argument by 1000 % (or is it 10,000 %?) Yasir -July 12th, 2007 at 2:07 pm Ahmad AlFarsi (Author) said: “It’s actually even more minuscule: 0.0000003% (.0003 grams is .0000003 kg, so .0000003/1)” Assalaamu alaykum, Actually, what Sh. Yasir originally had (0.00003%) is the correct percentage. True, 0.0003 grams is 0.0000003 kg, and the final ratio is 0.0000003/1… however, since 0.01/1 is 1%, then 0.0000003/1 is 0.00003 %, as was mentioned in the original post. Just so we have our numbers straight wassalaam -July 12th, 2007 at 4:41 pm aarij said: Subhan Allah, I didn’t read the whole thing (but I’m gonna soon, in sha Allah)…but what stood out for me from this entire page is this: “- Br. Jamal - this fatwa is not being given by a minor student of knowledge such as myself, but rather is the fatwa of many scholars and Fiqh Academies of our times, amongst them the European Fiqh Council.” May Allah increase you in ilm and in emaan shaikh Yasir, can’t wait to see you again this Saturday, in sha Allah On the article, I’m actually very strong against eating cheese from a non-Muslim store, but now my shunning of cheese will be mostly related to my culinary preferences I think a few of my friends would be vindicated by this, but its all good, walhamdulillah! -July 12th, 2007 at 6:42 pm Amrooha said: Wow JKK to Sheikh mASHAaLLAH from all these responses it would be fair to say Our Ummah really loves cheese, now we have the verdict just watch the waistline huh maybe will stick to low fat cheesE! -July 12th, 2007 at 7:23 pm Solomon2 said: Just for comparison: in kosher products, it isn’t necessarily the quantity of non-kosher ingredients that matters, but whether or not their presence changes the character of the food. Even a very small amount of rennet suffices to change milk into cheese, so rabbis have decreed that rennet must be added to the cheese culture by an observant Jew, and if animal rennet is used it must originate from a kosher-slaughtered animal. -July 12th, 2007 at 8:48 pm Nirgaz Abdullah said: Salam Brother Yasir! Nashville Sisters give our salams and look forward to our next class if you come back to Memphis. Great Article, and JazakAllah Khair…I had already put those forwarded articles about the chips in my trash file. Honestly, if I were to listen to every fowarded article about what is “Haram” or “Halal” I would only be left with water. And who knows that might be next weeks email…”Bottled Water no longer Halal”…lol Umsalih -July 13th, 2007 at 12:12 am Abdullah said: Subhan Allah…I have been following this issue in real life and on the web for several weeks and their are 2 responses I see: 1. Jazakum Allahu Khair for telling me, I will never eat Doritos again. 2. Are you sure? You want to make everything haram! I’ll have to do some more research (chomping noises heard after eating more Doritos). Group #1 is very Sahaba-like and I respect you for that. Hearing and obeying and staying away from doubtful matters. Group #2. Wow, how disappointing. I mean come on — celebrating in the post comments that the shiekh made a fatwa that corresponded with your desires! And still asking about McDonald’s. Now, this is a real trivial issue to me but it has big implications and that is why I must say something. It is trivial to me because I barely eat chips and, when I do, I eat Kosher-certified Kettle chips that are healthier and taste better. Also, Frito Lay still has non-porcine and even Kosher products to select from: http://www.fritolay.com/fl/flstore/cgi-bin/dietary_choices.htm? But of course, your favorite bag isn’t on there is it. The fact that Frito Lay has a section on their website called “Seasoned Products Made Without Porcine Enzymes” makes it significant. It is upsetting that Frito Lay is more concerned about this than some of our Muslim brothers and sisters. Especially when there are alternatives. The reason I say this has big implications because it really is a sign of the weakness of our faith. I am not talking about the difference of opinion on the matter but more of the reaction. Really bros and sisters we need to step it up! When will we eat halal over non-dhabiha? When will we start eating kosher over non-kosher enzymes? When will we take the extra effort to free ourselves of any blame as the prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) said, “He who guards against doubtful things keeps his religion and honor blameless.” [Bukhari and Muslim] I know, I know you’re saying: the halal meat store is “not clean”, it’s just cheese, or their is a difference of opinion, or this is a fiqh issue. No this is not a fiqh issue. This attitude is not a fiqh issue. Our hearts are not pure. Everyone always going back to fiqh. We have completely taken Zuhd (Asceticism) and Wara’ (Leaving doubtful matters) out of our vocabulary. It is something that we read about in stories and no longer possible I guess. The prophet (peace be upon him) forbade us from drinking out of gold and silver and sitting on silk cushions and said these are not for the believers in this world. We always think about the technical fiqh and never think why. We use analogy for porcine rennet but never for our iPhones and luxuries. Wake up! Let’s start making sacrifices really. And I’m not talking about cheese I’m talking about dunya. Wassalamu Alaikum. -July 13th, 2007 at 1:34 am bilal said: masha’Allah, this article is awesome -July 13th, 2007 at 1:38 am 'Abdil Kareem said: salaamun ‘alayk Abdullah, You state, “The reason I say this has big implications because it really is a sign of the weakness of our faith.” I understand why you’re upset; however, you have no reason to be. You seem to be upset and concerned because your impression of debates such as these, debates that deal with “trivial issues” as you label them, are an excuse for Muslims to dig up any excuse they can find to follow a lax opinion that is in accordance to their desires. I say you have no reason to be upset since these “trivial matters” are, in fact, addressed by the Quran, Sunnah, Sahaabah and the Ulamaa of the past and present. So how can one claim that they are trivial? And if in fact they have been addressed by said sources, and there’s sufficient evidence from them to lead to such detailed conclusions as are available today, then rather than getting upset and calling it a “weakness of faith,” shouldn’t you be appreciative of the vastness and comprehensiveness of our religion; or in the least, be appreciative of those who expend their efforts to reveal the works of the scholars of past and present? Lastly, your implication that the iPhone and other luxuries fall under forbidden indulgences of this world is severely flawed. Granted, it’s important to “think about” the technical fiqh as well as the “why” behind such rulings; however, many people conclude (based on their own whims) with a “why” that, in reality, opposes the technical, yet manifest teachings of the Quran and Sunnah. All praise is due to the One who sent us the clearest of Books, the most knowledgeable of Teachers, salallahu ‘alayhi wasallam, and the minds we can (and should) use to comprehend their lessons. wassalaamu ‘alaykum. -July 13th, 2007 at 3:02 am Karam Kim said: Yaa Sheikh Abdallaah! Your post made my heart totally comfortable. Since there’s no clear message from the Quran and the Sunnah about this matter, I’ll stay away from that, doubtful matters. Reason matters, but faith also matters, even more than that. May Allaah bless and guide all of us. Ameen. -July 13th, 2007 at 3:26 am cheese said: Assalamalaikum, To Yasir Qhadi, I came across this in an email about why doritos are haram: “other Enzymes such as Lipase and finally dairy flavors containing Enzymes, if the rennet is from microbial and above mentioned are not from Halal source then cheese will not be Halal. The culture medias are made with milk, whey and lactose (Haram if made from pork rennet, Haram media, pork enzymes), dried autolyzed brewer’s yeast (by product of beer) and Pancreatin (Haram if from pork).” source: http://www.muslimconsumergroup.com/Events.do?menu=Events&eventAction=eventdetail&eventId=307 Can you clarify this please? I assume that the same prinicple applies here to these other enzymes and ingredients? Jazakallah kahyr. -July 13th, 2007 at 3:28 am Abdullah said: Assalamu Alaikum ‘Abdil Kareem. Akhi you missed my point. You are looking at it from a fiqh perspective as I mentioned. I am talking about this attitude that you describe as “an excuse for Muslims to dig up any excuse they can find to follow a lax opinion that is in accordance to their desires.” You might see it otherwise but I find this to be a real problem with the umma. If people’s conclusions were based on pure fiqh I would have no issue with that. But when you have people posting celebration comments you know yourself that is not the right attitude. My issue isn’t with fiqh as you think, it is with the Muslim attitude. I didn’t say those luxuries were forbidden. Be fair. But once again you keep going back to the fiqh. This is my exact point. We have no concept of Zuhd in the dunya and Wara’ in our daily lives. These are the treasures that the prophet Muhammad (may Allah send peace and blessings upon him) lived by and the sahaba (may Allah be pleased with them) and all the scholars (may Allah have mercy upon them) that we read about. Everyone is familiar with fiqh but none of us try to emulate these great people in how they lived. I know, I know it’s not obligatory to do so… May Allah guide us all to what is best. Ameen. -July 13th, 2007 at 4:08 am Hassan said: Mr. Abdullah, I openly and very happily celebrate bounties of Allah for making this religion easy. My zuhd tells me to be happy praying qasr while traveling because I know that what my prophet (PBUH) did and making it longer would not give me any further reward. My zuhd tells me to enjoy what Allah has make halal for me. My zuhd tells me to see the example of sahabi Omar(RA) when he was accompanying a man and water fell on that man from roof, and he started asking people if this water was “tahir” (pure), and Omar forbade people to answer him, as it would make only things difficult for me. My Zuhd tells me not to act like jewish people who asked so many questions about halal and haram that made their religion of just dos and donts and left spirituality out of it. Verily the best spirituality is that of prophet Muhammad PBUH, who married women, fast some days, break other days, sleep sometime in nights, and wake for tahajjud. He did not go out into jungles for leaving dunya. -July 13th, 2007 at 8:10 am Mujahideen Ryder said: Shaykh Yasir, when you say “an extremely minute quantity of an impure substance, when added to a large quantity of a pure one, will not make the final substance impure.” Doesn’t that only apply to water? -July 13th, 2007 at 12:00 pm Danish said: Just a FYI - I called Master Foods USA today (the manufacturers of Skittles, Starburst, Snickers etc) to check on the origin of the gelatin. Without talking to anyone (and anyone can call and see for themselves at 800-551-0683, option 2 and 2 again) there is a recording about gelatin in their products and it states clearly in one sentence: “Gelatin in our products is derived from beef”. I guess a lot of non-swine eating folks are suddenly calling in so they felt the need to put a recording about it I thought I’d post this in case anyone was wondering about it. -July 13th, 2007 at 12:35 pm Bilal Azam said: I just spoke to FritoLay and they said ONLY the list given on the following link does not have pork http://www.fritolay.com/fl/flstore/cgi-bin/ProdDetEv_Cat_351852_NavRoot_361689_ProdID_564690.htm -July 13th, 2007 at 3:24 pm Amad (Author) said: Bilal, pls read the post… We are well aware of this background. W/s -July 13th, 2007 at 3:32 pm Bilal Azam said: Oh my bad… i thought from the original post that He was referring to the second category and termed the third one haraam… Personally i wud never eat anything that has pork in it no matter how little the quantity.. Sorry about the misunderstang again -July 13th, 2007 at 3:38 pm Guidance Seeker said: Assalamoalaikum Sh Yasir, Jazakallah Khair for such detailed and informative article. Based on this and what you mentioned about the companions eating cheese from Zoroasters, it would make beef or any non-pork gelatin halal for us to eat? I am quite sure I know the answer to my own question but out of extreme fear ask for clarification to avoid pitfalls of my own shortcomings. -July 13th, 2007 at 4:10 pm abdelrahman said: Wow Yasir that is pritty cool… I liked your explanation of ketab al tawheed, I was in Medina the last month and half andi found the same format you had. ((Oh and i made dua for you too)). -July 13th, 2007 at 8:14 pm Abdullah said: Assalamu alaikum brother “My zuhd tells me” Hassan. Allah making the religion easy and zuhd are 2 completely separate things. I take full advantage of dispensations in the deen without regret. Zuhd is living a humble life. Zahids usually don’t say “my zuhd tells me”. I never said go to the jungle. Qasr is not zuhd. Combining and joining your prayers is easy so of course people are going to do it. Praying tahajud until your ankles swell is not so easy. Asking questions about the source of things is wara’ anyway and not zuhd. I do agree with you about excessive questioning as mentioned in your story. However, notice that Omar (may Allah be pleased with him) *prevented* him from asking. This is the opposite of the situation today. People are asking and others are answering. Some questions are legitimate others excessive. When it comes to things that are repeated constantly, people should ask. People aren’t asking about water dropping from a random roof they are asking about things that might occur every day. Some people eat Doritos or non-dhabiha meat every day so their is nothing wrong with these type of questions — they are actually commended. I am going to post some hadith from An-Nawawi’s collection that will clarify what I’m trying to say: The Messenger of Allah, sallallahu ‘alayhi wasallam, said: “Truly, what is lawful is evident, and what is unlawful is evident, and in between the two are matters which are doubtful which many people do not know. He who guards against doubtful things keeps his religion and honor blameless, and he who indulges in doubtful things indulges in fact in unlawful things, just as a shepherd who pastures his flock round a preserve will soon pasture them in it. Beware, every king has a preserve, and the things Allah has declared unlawful are His preserves. Beware, in the body there is a flesh; if it is sound, the whole body is sound, and if it is corrupt, the whole body is corrupt, and behold, it is the heart.” The Messenger of Allah, sallallahu ‘alayhi wasallam, said: “Leave that about which you are in doubt for that about which you are in no doubt.” The Messenger of Allah, sallallahu ‘alayhi wasallam, said: “Verily Allah the Almighty has prescribed the obligatory deeds, so do not neglect them; He has set certain limits, so do not go beyond them; He has forbidden certain things, so do not indulge in them; and He has said nothing about certain things, as an act of mercy to you, not out of forgetfulness, so do not go inquiring into these.” Wassalamu alaikum. -July 13th, 2007 at 8:22 pm Hassan said: Masha’Allah, brother Abdullah you are true “zahid”, I could not have imagined being replied in such humble and decent way, and for husn-az-zan of others, by thinking best of others and understanding the way of speech was meant to make a point rather than talk about my personal level of taqwa. Jazak-Allah. -July 13th, 2007 at 10:40 pm Abubakr said: As Salaamu Alaykum brother, You can choose to argue this point and you can choose to eat cheese made from pig stomachs (albeit a very minute amount of “pig stomach”), but please don’t try to convince others . . . Keep it simple . . . when in doubt . . . . leave it alone. Thank you, Abubakr -July 14th, 2007 at 11:42 am jinnzaman said: Assalamu alaikum While I don’t necessarily appreciate a non-Hanafi scholar telling Hanafis about their school’s jurisprudence, that definitely an awesome and well-researched fatwa. InshaAllah, it will create demand for fatwas based on strong proofs from the sources of legislation and an objective analysis of the legal question proposed. May Allah (subhana wa ta’ala) reward Shaykh Yaser and others like them who take it upon themselves to elucidate the matters of the deen for the Ummah. Ameen. masalama -July 14th, 2007 at 2:20 pm SaqibSaab said: Nice, jinnzaman. =) -July 14th, 2007 at 5:40 pm Amad said: While I appreciate the sentiments for the “Zuhd” line of defense, I do find it a bit odd, besides the fact that Sheikh sahib has already addressed it Yaani, why is that so many people’s Zuhd (esp. desis) ends on the halalness of food? Its like that old joke “Me and my girlfriend only heat zabihah”… In the areas of priorities and the areas of doubts, there are SO many issues that we can start with that are MORE doubtful and MORE important in our daily lives than consuming 0.0000003% pork enzyme, which may or may not be in its original state. Now, I am sure the countering point will be, “we should do as much as we can”. Sure. But why always start with food, and why with my Doritos?? LOOK around us, is that really something so important to concern ourselves with, esp. when the mountain of evidence from a fiqhi point of view is in its halalness favor? Allah has made this deen easy, so when we have completed all the faraid and stayed away from all the confirmed haraams, then I am sure everyone will be glad to talk about the ‘near harams’, or in this case the ‘remote, unlikely, near-impossibility haram’. And whoever has kids can agree with me that doritos are an important source of nutrition for them Wasalam JZ: good comment! And in this matter, i think the opinion is closer to ‘original-hanafi’ than others… -July 14th, 2007 at 6:14 pm Hassan said: Salaam, Amad bhai I agree, I had a friend who would give speeches on how eating doubtful food is like breaching covenant with Allah, while he did not use to pray except Jumuah. And there are people who would do wara in food, yet have no wara in hurting/insulting other muslims. -July 14th, 2007 at 6:56 pm The Wahhabi Misanthrope said: I’m no. #100. Food. Controversial. -July 14th, 2007 at 6:59 pm Ibrahim said: To add to what br. Amad said, listen to this shair (couplet) in Urdu (I will transliterate it here): Tumhari dawat qabool mujh ko, magar yay kheyaal rakhna Bear [sharab] kisi bhi brand ki ho, magar chicken fried halal rakhna! SubhanAllah, although I have never encountered such a person, they are out there. May Allah guide them. On a serious note, I agree there are more important things but if someone can’t bring himself to eating chips still, let it be. Don’t belittle him and tell him that he should do others things first. On the flip side, those who still won’t eat it, I say at least don’t condemn those who would eat it based on this article and the evidence provided, and don’t question their intentions or zuhd because if you don’t know thier intentions, then as Muslims you must believe that they have the best intentions. -July 14th, 2007 at 8:01 pm Ibrahim said: Sorry, I should be considerate and translate the couplet. Here it goes: I accept your invitation but bear in mind Any brand of bear is fine, but keep chicken fried halal! -July 14th, 2007 at 8:13 pm Maverick said: Abdullah, you quoted the haadith which states in part: “Truly, what is lawful is evident, and what is unlawful is evident, and in between the two are matters which are doubtful which many people do not know…” That matter is referring to doubtful things which one does not know the true nature of. Which is why we were told in the Qur’an to ask those who know, if we do not know ourselves. Specifically regarding this issue [Doritos] the issue is not doubtful as it was before, because Shk. Yaser clarified it. So why make things difficult for people? -July 14th, 2007 at 9:56 pm Amad (Author) said: ASA… just to be clear, I am not belittling anyone. I am sure Br. Abdullah believes sincerely in this matter inshallah and may Allah reward his wara’ in it. But I would say that the lives of many other Muslims revolve around the intricacies of halal and haram food, discussing it in their home bought on mortgage. I think there is a lot more doubt and much more need for wara in matters of bank interest (as again Sh YQ said) than doritos Oh, and let’s not start on the mortgage tangent now! P.S. Ibrahim, love the couplet! -July 14th, 2007 at 9:57 pm Abdul Malik said: Shaykh yasir, what is your stance on processed food which have geletine? -July 14th, 2007 at 10:22 pm R Carter said: assalamu alaikum, Shaikh yasir, the proof you stated for the amounts, isn’t that to decide whether water was najis or not for the prurpose of wudhu and ghusl. how are we using that to prove that we can consume a very minute amount of pork, if it has not been chemically altered that is. thank you wassalaam -July 15th, 2007 at 3:02 am Fayez said: Salaam3laikum, I disagree but respect your opinion though I feel each individual should learn and make their own conclusions. 1. Posting your opinion in such a short analysis opens a whole new door for ppl to accept halal based on your two arguments, chemical change and negligible traces. Wine to vinegar ie rice wine vinegar changes the composition of the substance, chemical change through fermentation over wood in time, same with the OH with ethanol not being intoxicating. But rennet from pig is an additive, and you cant intentionally add a teaspoon to 19L of water, once its manufactured it might not be significant, but its still necessary for the final product. Why cant u do with an alternative and use bacterial culture. Same applies to cooking with sherry, most might burn away, and its cooking alcohol which is slightly different, but its still has intoxicating effects with similar properties, eventually leading to using beer instead. I cook, i know how it adds to the food, thats why they use it, same reason why they use rennet, but why use it when u have an alternative? Why not avoid what is bad to safeguard yourself? And bringing the issue of living in the west and having haraam all around you is weak, that gives more reason to stay firm. I use to open windows in the winter because my roomates would cook bacon, true im not consuming it and its a little portion of the total air i breathe but its there and i am willing to suffer a little in the cold to avoid what is disliked by the Prophet (peace be upon him). When water reaches two quallas, the impurity of the lake is negligble refers to a logical reasoning, then reason with me. Dont u still prefer taking a shower before and after swimming in a pool? The najis is usually accidental, not imposed as in the case of rennet. It all comes down to taqwa. -July 15th, 2007 at 9:59 am Omar AbdulKayyum Garcia said: From my limited understanding of Fiqh, if it derived from a pure sustance then became impure then later transformed to pure then the final product is pure. as in the case of alcohol which its origin is fruit. However if the original product is impure then transform to impure its later product its impure. as in the case of Pork related products. Why is pork used in the first place? its even haram to touch it. So if we wanted to make halal pork rennet, first we must hire a kafr to slaughter the animal and make the porcine rennet then make it go through the chemical transformation or add a small amount to our halal product, (make sure is an insignificant amount) so that we may consume it. (being that were are not supppost to buy and sell such haram produt, the Kafr who provided us with the insignificant amount of the rennet, in going to have to go unpayed, poor Kafr) Please escuse the sarcasume, just trying to make a point. note: this comment is only a personal view, it must not necceraly be taken as a fatwa. -July 15th, 2007 at 10:00 am jinnzaman said: Hey, The amount of energy people are expending over whether Doritos are halal or not could probably be used to liberate Jerusalem from the Zalimoon many times over. If you want to follow this fatwa, alhumdulillah, if you don’t want to, alhumdulillah. The Sahabah (radhi allahu anhum) respected ikhtilaaf on matters, why can’t we? Everyone just back off and breath and make wudhu and pray two nawafil and ask yourself whether this is that great of an issue to bicker about. masalama -July 15th, 2007 at 11:08 am Abdullah said: Assalamu Alaikum, I would like to address a few arguments people make: 1. “Since this issue is so trivial, it’s not worth talking about.” 2. “I know people that eat dhabiha but commit other sins.” 3. “This is not a doubtful matter.” Responses: 1. Like I said before, this is a trivial issue that has big implications. Because I personally know people that chase lax opinions and become lax Muslims. First it’s Doritos, then non-dhabiha meat, and then music, etc. Plus, even though you might consider what you eat to be something trivial it is something you do EVERYDAY and the Prophet (peace be upon him) said about the dua of someone who eats something haram, “so how can he be answered?” [Muslim] I am not trying to make things difficult on people as some people suggest. If I was, I would say chips or cheese are forbidden entirely. All I am saying is it is better to stay away from these couple of bags of chips! It is just a couple of bags and you are the one’s making a big deal because it’s your *favorite* one. 2. This is irrelevant because rulings are independent of the actions of people. 3. Allah did not order us to eat cheese but He did order us to avoid pig. According to this fact, it our responsibility to AVOID pig as the prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) commanded us to. Remember the hadith says about the forbidden things “avoid them” not avoid them as much as you can. Doubtful matters and fiqh are 2 completely separate issues. Fiqh has 5 categories (obligatory, recommended, halal, disliked, and forbidden). There is no doubtful category. Doubtful matters is related to faith and not fiqh. A sheikh can make a ruling on something and say it is halal and it can still be doubtful. Remember, the very fact that there is difference on an issue can make it doubtful. When people say “sheikh Yasir proved it” this is incorrect because he states himself that it is his humble opinion. With all due respect to sheikh Yasir, him having an opinion on the issue does not remove it from being doubtful. So all I am saying in conclusion is what I have been trying to say since the beginning: This is a doubtful matter. Whoever stays away from it will get rewarded and “keep his religion and honor innocent”. You will not get rewarded for eating Doritos. Th... [Full Article...]
